Ryan Truax Discusses the Science Behind Growth Hacking at Leadpages

All right, welcome to Hack to the Future with Kyle Roof. I am Kyle Roof, and today we have Ryan Truax, who's the senior director of marketing at Leadpages. Ryan, thanks for being here.

Kyle, it's a pleasure. I'm very much looking forward to today's conversation.

Fantastic. Fantastic. So, Ryan, I know that you are known for growth hacking in particular. And in one instance, in-app user engagement. How would you define in-app user engagement? Is that using the tool as it's meant to be used? Is that using extra features? What's included in in-app engagement?

Yeah, for us, it's much to be about user adoption, right? So we have a website builder, and landing page builder here at Leadpages, and there are a lot of little widgets and little bits of functionality that we hold near and dear to our hearts. And of course, it's our goal to get those users to adopt that. So for us, we're looking at these micro-moments in which we see if we get a foothold with a specific feature, or again, widget, call it what you may, that we believe that the path to their success beyond that is one of which we're quite confident in. So we're kind of in a micro analysis, looking at these smaller parts of the application to ensure that we're sure they align with our expectations, but more importantly, build those kind of steps to the, again, the user's success. So again, a lot of micro-segmentation allows us to look at their journey in a way in which it's not just, hey, we have 1,500 DEAUs, that's awesome, but what are the stories within that that lead us to believe that the confidence of that cohort is going to win with us into the future?

What would be something where you can apply a growth hack to a specific type of engagement? What's something that you might, as a technique, apply to that?

Yeah, I actually might take this just a little bit differently based on a fundamental shift that we've made at Leadpages recently. So I think a lot of folks that are building products often think we need these big monolithic moments throughout the year that people are gonna get so excited about that we can celebrate Shell from the rooftops and everybody will come. Well, we can often disappoint ourselves when we realize these big moments aren't as big as we want them to be. So as of recently, we've worked on a level of frequency with our updates to show the commitment to our end users that we're providing them value every day. MarTech is growing increasingly competitive, right? There are a million different places to go for the same solution. So if you're not showing a commitment to the end user in a way in which you're actively building and working towards their success. They might fall off that journey. They may not wait for those four big moments in the year. I might lose them to a competitor. So what I want to show the end user as of this year and as of this moment, weekly, bi-weekly updates and we're replaying that value to them. We don't want to be out of sight, they can't forget about us, and they can't ignore the value that we're bringing to their accounts. So every time that monthly credit card statement shows up, my lead page's line item is in there, and there's not this question of, am I getting any in return when I'm paying for it? And I think so many that build a product assume that these big monolithic moments are gonna be this kind of save-all, catch-all solutions for their revenue challenges or these interpersonal experiences. And I might challenge that. I think fundamentally the frequency and the momentum that is built on kind of a weekly, bi-weekly cadence even small little things, it doesn't have to be these big wins, is how we kind of get to the path that we want to, and that's for me, revenue, and for others, it's user adoption.

Would that be, you can see that they try a new feature or they come back like a repeat use on a feature?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So when we get, so we launched these things, yeah, it's much to do with adoption upon, you know, release obviously for us. So we're looking for those first moments in the first 10 to 14 days to ensure that again, the things that we had built have captured the attention of that end user. So very much so. Yeah. And again, we're doing so feature by feature, and then we're looking at a macro view of just pure publish with that feature for us. It could be an animated button, or a section divider as of recent, does that inform their larger publish? Did they use the things inside of their landing page to publish? If so, we're feeling pretty good about it. And then we segment down to the actual feature itself. And by looking at both, we can start to create trends of which we feel quite confident in heading into the future. So macro and micro analysis unlocks a lot of opportunity and your ability to kind of see around corners.

Good. I know that part of what you talk about is taking a scientific approach to growth and growth hacking. What would be a scientific approach versus maybe willy-nilly growth hacking? Like how would you define that or how would you describe that?

Yeah. Yeah, I'll take you through a recent example that maybe folks can take action on themselves. So for me, performance marketing, right, it's the lifeblood of my job and it is for many organizations. Often that means paid media, right? We're all spending, we're all trying to capture the attention of others and bring those new customers to the business. Often we build these campaigns, we try to segment and create things that look like our ideal customer profile. We ship it, we wait for it to come back. We say, boy, that did or did not work, right? The thing that we're not often doing though is applying our learnings back to the channel of choice. So for me, Google, for instance, in this example, we have a primary conversion event, right? We get folks to start a trial. We're excited about it. Google sees that signal. They try to replicate it to the best of their abilities. We at LeadPages have a 14-day free trial. I'm trying to find moments within that free trial experience that I can replay back to Google that say this signal has strengthened because Kyle signed up for a free trial, the first conversion event. But guess what Kyle did on his second and third day? He hit our dashboard, he logged in three or four times. I create secondary and third conversion events that allow Google to take that signal and strengthen it and strengthen it again. So when I ask them to go find more people, and spend more money, they're able to replay multiple signals to go find more Kyle Roofs of the world. So I think too often we're just looking at a singular conversion event, right? We say, cool, they started the trial, they became a customer, they became a lead. That's great, that's a win. But what if you could double down on that success and find other things that are leading indicators of what Kyle might look like and his friends and his family as well? Because many of us hopefully have unlimited ad spend because of our performance, right? Success follows we're all willing to spend to the moon. If you do these things, it does unlock the ability to spend more, in my opinion. I've seen it play out in real-time. And right now, we're working with the algorithm inside of Google to play these secondary and third conversion events in a way in which the signal strengthens immeasurably. And my Google reps, recently, actually told me they had not seen this tried and they were thrilled just to launch this experiment. It's nice when Google tells you you're doing something that I haven't seen before, but they're as excited as we are about it. So for what it's worth, they are.

So that's interesting. So when we were talking about a KPI, it wouldn't just be, we did this thing and it turned into revenue or maybe decreasing churn. It would be also the engagement points that you can use for something else.

The shared relationship between customer acquisition and product usage, right? Again, I think many of us are just under PLG models, right? Get them to the product and the product takes care of the rest of it. But what if I measure those PLG moments in a way that informs customer acquisition? Now we've created a flywheel. Every marketing leader, and CMO in the world is talking about flywheels. Rarely does it make sense and it's often so abstract, but this is a true flying wheel that has science applied to acquisition and product adoption. Now we're talking about things that matter and I would encourage those who run paid media and have their hands on it in a basic understanding of conversion events instead of being Facebook, Insta, more primarily for me, Google, to find second and multiple conversion events that they can feed back to Google and see what happens. I'd like your odds of winning.

So I've seen you talk about the brand story and message house. How would you define those terms? What is a brand story and what is a message house?

Yeah, for the message house, for those I would ask you to Google it and just get this simple visual. It's often the foundations, your core messages, right? And I think it's critically important because marketing is an ever-evolving living, breathing organism and it's shifting and changing all the time. We need something to orientate ourselves around with, something to come back home to, no pun intended with the house kind of thing here. But the real reason is because we're often running in areas that are unfamiliar to us, and we lose sight of what is our core identifying principles. Again, how does that customer see themselves as a part of your brand story? So I think of, again, message house as the construct in which our core messages are defined. We can orientate ourselves against those. And then that levels up into the brand story. What is the net new prospect? What does the customer see when you're speaking to them or with them more importantly. I am a big proponent of talking, having a dialogue, and not talking at people. So for us, we try to lean into relatability, right? We're seeking marketers. We want to feel, look, and sound like a marketer. So our visual story, our written word, and our audible story, all align with what a marketer would expect of themselves and their competitors, their peer sets. So the two kind of have a shared relationship, of course, but the power of brand in my opinion is something that is often lost. We're always speeding to build the best product. The story often follows behind the product development. And we often end up looking a lot like our peer set. Now, I like to myself to dare to go where others have not gone. There always is a white space opportunity. Those who seek it out and dare to be different, tend to win more often than those who look like their peer set in kind of the competitive landscape. As earlier referenced, for me, MarTech has never been more competitive. It's a sea of logos. You can go anywhere to get anything these days. How do you uniquely stand out? I think it's much to do, again, daring to be different.

I would think that if somebody can relate to the story, you know, then that's when you've got somebody where they're like, this is me. You know, they can see themselves in the journey and using the tool and how it's going to apply to what they're doing. That allows them to relate to what you're doing on a much higher level.

Correct. I mean, we always talk about churn reduction. How do we go about reducing churn? Well, we think about the product experience. Was the product good enough to solve their needs? Well, we have to assume that that's the case. But again, if there's a disconnect from what brought you to the product, and then as I remarket to you and communicate with you, if there's a distance that's growing between us and our ability to kind of, again, relate to one another, we're going to have perhaps elevated churn because of this, I no longer see myself in the product, the brand doesn't sound like any meat, it's too big, it's too small. Again, ensuring that we close that distance between, again, relatability between that customer and the experiences we provide. Again, in my view, it can unlock churn reduction. These are the things that can inform it a bit more abstractly admittedly, but really can make meaningful differences.

Awesome. All right, now we're going to play a game. This game is called Which is More Important? I'm going to give you a scenario, and you're going to tell me which is more important. Do you understand the rules of the game?

I believe so, yes.

Okay. All right. When writing a hip hop song, which is more important music and music or lyrics? For example, if Vision the Kid, and True are writing the song, bad at letting it go, which is more important, the music or the lyrics?

Wow, Kyle, you did your homework. I like this. All right, you're talking to a former, maybe current music producer yet in my hobbies, but I would have to suggest, much like marketing, you have to capture one's attention immediately. Often there are a few seconds before that first lyric or a rhyme that takes place. I'm gonna go with music.

Right on, right on. Were you doing the beats in those songs? Was that you?

Yeah, long aspiring music producer, attempted to go out west if you will, and fell in love with marketing instead. So here I am.

Do you have any main musical influences? What do you like?

Man, I like to go back to the 60s and 70s, but honestly the music that my parents grew up on is wildly informative. Think about times in which there were only four to five instruments available to you and you had to do something new. I love those that again, dare to go where others do not. You think of the Beatles recording sessions with George Martin and challenging the engineers to do things that had never been done before. Again, unconventional approaches to things that were so standardized. I mean, get out of here. They had to truly be revolutionary. Nowadays, we have every tool at our disposal and it's very easy to recreate complex moments. But back then, wow.

Excellent. As we mentioned at the beginning, you're the senior director of marketing at Leadpages. For people who are unfamiliar with Leadpages, can you give us the 30-second elevator? What does Leadpages do?

Yeah, absolutely. We are a conversion-optimized landing page provider in essence. So what we do is we go a mile deep on optimization and conversion for your business. So again, often folks are launching large campaigns. You need a singular place to point those folks to. We take message-matched experiences and put those through the lens of conversion optimization. Our on-page UX is second to none. Our page load speed is our secret sauce. We do it better than anybody else around. And we do so without any coding abilities, right? Like I think that's still lost everything is dragging, drop, but a no-code experience still is vitally important for someone who doesn't have a lot of time and needs to do things quickly and it can quickly iterate on these on-page experiences. You can come here and do that in a few short minutes, quite honestly. Achieve results, launch the campaign, test, iterate, test, iterate, money.

So a big feather in your cap at Leadpages was leading Leadpages to the largest month of revenue that it had in three-plus years. That must have taken an omnichannel approach. When we're talking about omnichannel, what are those channels? What are you going to make that happen?

Yeah, in short, again, it looks much like what marketers assume, right? Paid acquisition through all the varying channels. For us, again, a strong affiliate network is the lifeblood of our business. About 20 % of our revenue comes from it. So we were able to double and triple down on what that experience meant. And then again, not often identified as such, but your expansion opportunities within your customer base as well. I kind of broke it down into those three categories or segments, if you will, with a bunch of micro things that sat underneath that as well. So for us, when I look at paid, it was display, it was search. We also experimented with a really big unconnected TV. That was back when it was kind of in its infancy and it was an incredible experience and a touch point that few marketers have benefited from. We still come from the age of broadcast and how dare you think that you can be on someone's TV set inside of their living room. The beauty of 2023 and 2024 is that's unlocked and very available to us. So we took a very bespoke approach to each channel. So every channel has this unique content that tends to win out. Sometimes we as marketers just blanket the whole, every channel with the same message, the same style of content, with the inability to seek out what that channel requires to be successful. We were able to break down each channel, understand what users were expecting of the channel, and match that. And then really drill down on getting the surrounds down style of marketing. So if I captured your attention over here on search or maybe that connected to the TV experiences I talked about, there would be other touch points to inform that trust and to remind you of the value that I would bring to you. So we wanted to be everywhere that you were. We had a two-week campaign in which we unlocked untold amounts of opportunity, thus leading to the largest revenue in three years for leadpages.

That's something I was going to ask, you know, everybody looks at kind of something measured in one month in terms of what you did in that month, but it's many months of work to get to that point. What does that look like? How many months do you think you're setting this up before you've got something in motion to have a month like that?

Yeah, for us, there was work that began eight weeks before it, right? We were having ideative sessions in which we tried to figure out again, channel identification, and what the channel required to be successful. I'm talking about a team of 14 people working in different parts, in different capacities throughout those eight weeks. So I benefited from a great group of marketers, but it did take us some time. I mean, we're talking of, you know, north of, you know, 1.5 million produced in this month. So this isn't peanuts. So it took a armed lock or a lock in our arms together, quite honestly for about six to eight weeks pretty consistently. Then we launched, measured quickly and swiftly, and iterated as needed. And at the end of the day, we were thankful to win together.

That's awesome. Very, very cool. Well, I know that people can find Vision the Kid and True on SoundCloud because that's where I found you, and that Let It Go is a great song. If people want to get in touch with you, how can they do that?

Yeah. Yeah, I think simply first and foremost, Ryantruax.com is a simple place to find me personally, LinkedIn, similarly find me there. And then more importantly, you know, LeadPages, all of our social channels, you'll be hearing more thought leadership from myself, our wonderful new CEO as well, and some of the other key players here at LeadPages. So we're looking to democratize the voice. But personally, if you want to talk to me, Ryan.truax at LeadPages, if you want to talk about business opportunities, I'm always into strategic partnerships. If you're looking for a DM conversation, find me on LinkedIn. I'd be happy to chat with anybody about these thoughts today or other curiosities about my story or how I can impact theirs perhaps.

Awesome. Ryan, thanks so much for being here. I appreciate it. And I want to thank everyone else for listening to Half to the Future. We'll talk to you next time.

Likewise, Kyle, thank you.